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About This Cross-Tolerance Stuff...
2C-B & LSD
Citation:   Fleming. "About This Cross-Tolerance Stuff...: An Experience with 2C-B & LSD (exp116720)". Erowid.org. Oct 21, 2022. erowid.org/exp/116720

 
DOSE:
T+ 0:00
18 mg oral 2C-B  
  T+ 0:00   oral Alcohol - Beer/Wine  
  T+ 0:00   oral Cannabis  
  T+ 15:00 1 hit oral LSD (blotter / tab)
BODY WEIGHT: 75 kg
My 2022 Psychedelic Review - Installment #4.

The following is the fourth installment in my 2002 Psychedelic Review:

This experiment yielded very good results, and shed light on a few different topics I’ve been pondering. The first phase of the experiment involved the last of my 2C-B stash. This material seems to be very clean, of high purity, and reliably dosed (the little bird who sent it to me has a patient hand with volumetric dosing techniques). Like many people, I’ve found 2C-B to be the clearest, most comfortable psychedelic of the bunch. This run was my first time with 2C-B, although I had used 2C-I & 2C-E back in the day, before Operation Web Tryp and the incarceration of the highest-quality vendors of these ‘Shulgin Chemicals’. So the only comparison I had to go by were the experiments with those phenethylamines, which occurred 20+ years ago – not to mention, those old dosages were totally eyeballed, and I was in a difficult time of my life; This time it would, thankfully, be much different.

[25 September, 2022.] 2C-B (18mg, oral) – This was a very successful Museum Dose. I took the slightly bitter liquid just before heading out to a Youth Orchestra concert. I got to the hotel nice and early, when it was still light out. I pulled up a chair in the outdoor courtyard and fired up a couple joints and cracked a beer [Hazy IPA, made by the beer brewing class at the local university, and very good!]. First alerts came more than an hour after ingestion, nice color enhancement, etc. Come-up was very smooth, and I took a seat in the auditorium and made myself comfortable.

There was a very entertaining wavey, swaying effect of some wall decorations, consisting of many long vertical pieces of wood, not sure what to call it but it was dancing steadily. Also, there is a mural high up on the wall of people in ancient, traditional dress, smoking big-ass spliffs and chugging beers and shit, the women flashing their tits and the whole nine yards. It looks like it was probably painted relatively recently, and it is really funny to look at. The room is called “The Library Lounge” but all the books on the wall are fake. The gloss-black Yamaha grand piano sounds good – maybe I’ll try to play it sometime, go in for a drink on an off-night or something… Generally speaking, Yamaha pianos are brighter-sounding and have a faster attack. Steinway pianos are warmer, and the sound “fills the room”. Billy Joel plays a Steinway, Elton John plays a Yamaha, for reference. The tone of this Yamaha grand was almost a bit harsh on the top end, but that’s to be expected in this type of room (with big, glass windows, etc)… … uh, not to mention the drugs intensify all nuances of the music, the good, the bad, and the ugly – in equal measure. That’s part of what we sign up for when we take these things, after all.

The effects peaked an hour after that, and I strolled to the toilet through diamond-shining décor and swirling black and white marble. My eyes were pretty bugged-up at this point, so I just tried not to make eye contact with anybody. Otherwise, I looked and felt pretty normal.

CEV’s were more like colors than actual shapes, mostly “chrome” orange and stuff, familiar hues with 2C… The Youth Orchestra were pretty far outta tune (they always are and I always notice it… Not sure if all audience members do or not, maybe I’m just sensitive to it? Almost sounds like the violins are going through a chorus pedal, or the detune function on an old Yamaha electric keyboard. The professional special guests, a trio, were an immediate contrast – totally intonated, and locked in.

I took a walk around the fancy hotel during intermission, feeling good, and strongly wanted to head down for a massage, as by this point the sensual, entactogenic body effects of the 2C-B were really apparent. But this time I was pretty intent on staying for the second part of the concert. It was a good decision, as the trio were even better during the second half. They had loosened up a bit – I saw them drinking wine during the break, and it must have been just the right amount.

I went into free-flowing thought while the music played, very pleasant. I always record these concerts for later enjoyment, and had absolutely no problem remembering to do so this time. The trio (cello, violin, and piano) did this big, epic piece called ‘The Four Seasons of Buenos Aries’ by a composer named Piazzolla, and it was amusing to listen to the accents of the Thai emcees pronouncing the Spanish titles of the movements and then translating them into English. My timing in this experiment was perfect, I was beginning to come down and had no problem at all driving home. However, I was a little bit tired and kinda “drunk feeling” later in the evening, worn out a bit, didn’t feel like talking, and had some choppy sleep… The next day I did the following:

[26 September] LSD (1 tab, ‘Breaking Bad’) – Feeling pretty good the morning after the 2C-B and classical music, I decided I was up for a challenge. I’d read a lot about this cross-tolerance stuff, and the general consensus seems to be that “Phenethylamines build tolerance slowly and only affect tryptamine tolerance a little bit. / Tryptamines, on the other hand, build up tolerance almost immediately and affect phenethylamines fully.” So, in other words, 2C before acid, you’re good to go, acid or shrooms before 2C is a waste of 2C, etc… I decided to put this idea to the test.

The tab I’ve been holding onto has a human eye on one side (I think it’s the character Jessie Pinkman’s left eye, from the famous TV show ‘Breaking Bad’), and the periodic table entry for Yttrium is on the reverse side. It was advertised as “320-350ug”, but in reality, it is most probably closer to 100ug, more or less. Once again, it’s very frustrating to not really know what’s what with these blotter tabs – The ‘Dr. Seuss’ tabs, advertised as 160ug, were stronger than these “320ug” guys, so that’s about all I have as a solid standard for comparison. This could be an analog (1P-LSD, LSZ, AL-LAD, ALD-52, etc, etc) – It would be amazing to have pure, accurately dosed LSD, even just once, so that I could at least say “Okay this what 100ug feels like. It was similar to that / It was different from this, in this way, etc…” Legalize it.

First alerts came on pretty fast, maybe 15 minutes in. The peak was just strong enough for that day, totally manageable but definitely present all day long, maybe a +2.5 or something like that. The ‘City of Jewels’ style of CEVs were very pleasant to look at behind my eyelids, whenever I would periodically sit or lay down, and there was surprisingly very little to no ‘Tool Album Cover’ stuff this time around. Body sensations were almost nil, aside from a slight but very noticeable rise in temp. I was sweating lightly even late at night in bed. Next day I went for a very long drive (200km, all twisty mountain roads, beautiful views the entire way). Afterwards I finally got that 2-hour, super-strength, Thai massage I’d been putting off, went home, ate, read a book and talked with L, slept okay – no better or worse than usual.

In terms of the cross-tolerance question: This one-tab acid dose pretty much felt like about half the strength of a previous two-tab acid dose – and perhaps 75% of the strength of the 150ug Dr. Suess tabs I’d had earlier in the year… The previous time [the 2-tab experiment] I’d had no psychedelics at all for nearly two weeks prior to the LSD, this time I’d had the 18mg of 2C-B only 15 hours before. There didn’t seem to be much dampening of the effect of the acid tab.
I’d had the 18mg of 2C-B only 15 hours before. There didn’t seem to be much dampening of the effect of the acid tab.
By contrast, in previous experiments where I had taken LSD before 2C-B, and Mushrooms before LSD, there was always a big drop in the potency of the second chemical taken. Does this rule hold true for most or even all phenethylamines and tryptamines? Unfortunately I don’t have access to unlimited quantities of both, but if I ever do, I’ll be very interested in testing out similar protocols to those of this weekend – phenethylamine first, tryptamine second.

2C-B has a bit of stimulant push, but nothing too uncomfortable. At higher doses [I’ve tested it up to 30mg] the OEV’s are much more forceful and the body feeling is a lot stronger.

The earliest experiments in my Psychedelic Sabbatical of 2022 involved the 2C-B that my little bird sent from the air to my hands. The bird is so kind, he or she actually gave me the first sample of the material for free, and then threw in a few more premeasured doses for free when I put in the main orders. This is how to do business, people! The 2C-B comes from a lab, probably in India or China. From what I understand, these sorts of packages very rarely get stopped by Thai customs – their big problem is crystal meth; psychedelics are very low down on their radar. Here are the brief experiment notes from these early trial runs with 2C-B:

[June, 2022], 2C-B (8+5=13mg, rectal) – First try, and a great view of the full moon through binoculars.

[June, 2022] Long Day – LSD morning, plus 25mg 2C-B oral, mushrooms later too… Wasteful… Still, with good humor all day, and with neon CEVs and “steering the direction of the trip”.

[July, 2022], 2C-B (18mg, oral) - ++ - Swirling water bottle.

[July, 2022], 2C-B (20+3=23mg, oral) - ++ - Lots of “breathing”.

2C-B (23+4=27, oral) - ++ - “Very Good”, Miami-Blue (the pastel walkway). [The last 3 experiments probably all contained some degree of the – “Kid Rock” bubbling OEV’s – see the intro to the ‘Bawitdabaw’ video, from 1998, to see what I mean… It was played relentlessly on MTV at the time…

My previous experience with 2C’s was in 2004, when I *legally* acquired 2C-E & 2C-I. I was young n’ stupid at the time, and didn’t have a scale and just eyeballed the doses, etc, etc. I can remember a bit of the effects from 20-ish years ago, but that’s all I have to go by, same for E. It’s a goddamn shame – if I’d known what was up, back then, I would have bought a HUGE supply of as many tryptamines and phenethylamines as possible, measured out proper doses, and if I went slow, I may still have had some today! I was too naïve to know what was coming down the pike: RacResearch, along with several other suppliers got raided by the FBI in ‘Operation Web Tryp’, and some of those small business owners are still in prison today, from what I understand. This is heartbreaking… So, personally I haven’t had the opportunity to really compare drug effects properly in the past. I did write some journal entries about the 2004, 2C experiments, but that journal is long lost… In those days, there was no “dark web”. I purchased the chemicals with a money order, or possibly even a personal paper check. The websites were right out in the open – it was a happier, simpler time…

[August, 2022], 2C-B (20mg, oral) + 1.5g Mushroom @ 10:00 a.m. – “Good body energy and uncluttered mind.”; Early-morning basketball day… Notes from end of day: “Not a great mix [I would say “not great to mix (anything of these classes, in general – they do very interesting things by themselves and don’t really add much to each other in combination.) At this time, I decided to abandon combo experiments for the future.]. Underwhelmed – WAIT LONGER

[Aftereffects… Of course, the concept of combo experiments was not fully abandoned, after all. But in the future, the vast majority of experiments were conducted with a single psychedelic. In the next installment, I decided to give microdosing a try. Is it really all it’s cracked up to be?]


Exp Year: 2022ExpID: 116720
Gender: Male 
Age at time of experience: 38
Published: Oct 21, 2022Views: 517
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LSD (2), 2C-B (52) : Various (28), Multi-Day Experience (13), Music Discussion (22), Retrospective / Summary (11), General (1)

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